There are a lot of articles written about gambling. A few stand out as more credible than others. Among the more trustworthy writers are Michael Schakelford (The Wizard of Odds) and John Robison (The Gaming Guru.) Both have addressed on their blogs a common question posed by their readers: who receives the money on hand pays when one person’s money was in the machine, but another person pushed the button? And both respond with the same answer the casino manager at Pauma gave me when I asked her that question: “Whoever pushes the button gets paid the money.”
In John Robison’s article a husband and wife were playing $1 video poker and were dealt a $10,000 winning hand. The husband’s card and money were in the machine, but he and his wife were taking turns pushing the “deal button” and the wife’s spin brought up the big win. She was issued the hand-pay and the W2G. A reader asked if Harrah’s had handled this properly.
The answer they got was “yes.” Robison said the player’s card was irrelevant; the person funding the spin is also irrelevant. The only person who matters is the person who pressed the spin button.
You can read the Gaming Guru’s article at this SITE.
You can read the Gaming Guru’s article at this SITE.
Michael Shackelford’s reader questioned an earlier post where Mike had written that the person who hit the spin button wins the money. “The Wizard” responded saying he had asked three casino executives about this hypothetical situation. They all said the same thing: You can’t win a bet if you don’t make a bet. If you didn’t push the spin button, you didn’t make the bet.
What if someone else did? He was told that if its your money in the machine, the casino will pay the person pushing the button if you consented to his initiating the spin. If he pushed the button without your consent, [which means he stole your credits] they won’t pay him, and there’s a chance they won’t pay you either. That will be decided on a case by case basis. There's a moral here: be a good customer that the casino wants to keep happy, and be vigilant guarding your machine.
You can read Michael Schakelford’s article at this SITE.
More recently an article on TribLIVE also addressed what to expect when you hit a hand-pay slot jackpot. The writer interviewed Adrian Ashmore, a slot shift leader at Meadows Casino. Slot shift leaders such as Ashmore are involved when the total win exceeds $10,000 at that casino. Ashmore also says the jackpot goes to whoever pushed the “spin” button, regardless of whose player’s club card is in the machine.
All these sources and many others say the same thing. The person who gets the jackpot is the one pushing the button. None of these articles mention Form 5754, you notice. Are the casinos unaware of this form - or do they just not want more paperwork to complete? Or do they not want the responsibility of completing W2Gs based on possible misinformation from the player in Part I about the people in Part II? I don’t know. I can understand why the casino would be reluctant to send the government a W2G for someone named in Part 2 (who might not even know he was listed there). I wouldn't want to do that. I can understand why the casinos would think the 5754 is a bother - just one more burden put on them by the government, one more piece of paper to retain.
I think -- and my opinion doesn't matter -- that the form needs to be used, but it needs to be revised and require signatures from everyone in Part 2 also. If I were writing the rules, I might also have everyone attach a copy to his tax return when he files - which is also not current procedure either. But we aren't going to change things, no matter what we think, and the casino is going to report in the way that's easiest for them regardless of how easy or difficult it is for us. So, bottom line - the reported winner is going to be the person who pushed the button. And I guess people gambling with friends need to keep that in mind when they play.
I think -- and my opinion doesn't matter -- that the form needs to be used, but it needs to be revised and require signatures from everyone in Part 2 also. If I were writing the rules, I might also have everyone attach a copy to his tax return when he files - which is also not current procedure either. But we aren't going to change things, no matter what we think, and the casino is going to report in the way that's easiest for them regardless of how easy or difficult it is for us. So, bottom line - the reported winner is going to be the person who pushed the button. And I guess people gambling with friends need to keep that in mind when they play.
You might be wondering why I posted this entry since I’m really not telling you anything new that wasn’t in my previous post. I’m just giving you a few additional sources to check that say the same thing. So why am I doing it? My motives are not the best maybe. I know human nature being what it is, you will be more likely to accept published information if many reliable sources say the same thing - especially when the answer conflicts with our logic. This is too important to get wrong.
I have one more story to tell about hand-pays. Watch for the write up about Laura and Jill Waters coming soon.
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